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v10.1.1 Squawks??

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n7ifr View Drop Down
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    Posted: 29 Dec 2015 at 10:22am
Wonder if Jake or other Avidyne insiders will comment on upcoming Fix for a couple of important v10.1.1 shortcomings (CJ and engineering aware too):

1.  540-240 (Audio Panel) - No Auto Mute while monitoring Standby Comm.

2.  vLOC Data Block - Extremely slow (5-6 minutes) to populate with tuned VOR signals.  Tough to count on the info for position reports.

Hoping maybe v10.2 will fix...

Tom Wolf
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AviJake Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Dec 2015 at 10:24am
1.  No plans at this time to add Auto Mute functionality.

2.  This is specifically addressed in Release 10.2.  You should see a major improvement here.
Steve Jacobson
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote n7ifr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Dec 2015 at 7:48pm
No Auto Mute! - Very disappointing.  
This is a major feature promised/advertised by Avidyne in the AMX240 Audio Panel - A big incentive for many of us in the Avidyne Audio Panel upgrade.

Tom Wolf  


Edited by n7ifr - 30 Dec 2015 at 12:30am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pburger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Dec 2015 at 10:04pm
Wow!!  I thought the auto-mute was the whole point of the standby com.  I gave that up when I went with the PMA-450, or I guess I didn't give it up! 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote n7ifr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Dec 2015 at 12:06am
Ouch!! That is correct - 
The AutoMute is/was the whole point of the Standby Com Monitor feature! Otherwise, the PMA-240 with Sound localization would be the way to go... (my old SL30 and GNS480 had better built in audio separation features).

Tom
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Craig767 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Dec 2015 at 12:37pm
That is very disappointing. Why was it not implemented when it was advertised in the 240 promotional literature? Also one of the reasons I bought the 240 over other brands.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AviJake Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Dec 2015 at 12:53pm
We attempted to implement it.  It didn't work.  We in Engineering removed it from functionality 2+ years ago at that point and pulled it out of product descriptions (e.g. Pilot Guide and Install Manual) about the same time.

I don't recall updating marketing brochures so I'll check that now to see if they are accurate.
Steve Jacobson
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote n7ifr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Dec 2015 at 2:22pm
Steve,

Page-6 of the AMX240 Audio Panel Pilot Manual states:

"Dual radio monitor capability allows the pilot to listen to standby frequencies with automatic muting when the active frequency is in use." 

This is beyond disappointing... could easily be interpreted as bait & switch.  You might pass this upstairs  to Avidyne Corporate as I anticipate asking for a full refund of the unit including labor, or as second choice, replacement with the PS Engineering PMA-450 which offers features that actually work.

Tom Wolf

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AviJake Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Dec 2015 at 2:33pm
I'm sorry but I don't see it. The book I wrote and what is posted online does not state that. Our product brochures also do not state that. I do not view this as a bait and switch as you suggest and find that kind of claim that I or we are involved with something so unethical highly unfortunate and offensive.

I am Avidyne corporate so there is no need to pass it any further.

I'll have Avidyne customer service reach out and get the AMX240 return started.
Steve Jacobson
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote n7ifr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Dec 2015 at 3:52pm
Steve,
I am looking at my copy of the Avidyne AMX240 Audio Panel Pilots Guide (Page 6, Rev G), which states as quoted above.

My apologies for seeming accusatory - not intended at all Steve.

I am merely venting my (and many others) frustration with the absence of this advertised feature, which would certainly be a plus to the unit.  

Many of us chose this unit for this very feature, without which makes it very challenging to discern potentially up to 4 separate comm channels using volume alone.  Are our 240 Pilot Manuals "outdated"??

Earlier in the year prior to the 540 release v10.1.1, trying to localize the 540's failure to Monitor the Comm Standby Frequency, the head person at PS Engineering in phone conversation convinced me to stick with the AMX240 rather than switch to the PMA450 because of the more streamlined and promised AutoMute function of the 240.

There may be many of us out here that were counting on this valued feature.  I will contact my installer to let him know you are initiating the Return Process on this unit.

Tom Wolf
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AviJake Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Dec 2015 at 4:20pm
Hi Tom,

I understand the disappointment and frustration with a desired feature(s) that are missing.

Written comm is always so subject to misinterpretation so I apologize for that.

The 240 PG is at Rev 01.  I updated it a long time ago but I fear it wasn't posted online and distributed as the hard copy that accompanied the product for some time. I'm looking into that.

I have valued your input on this forum so please keep it up.  It's making me and Avidyne better.
Steve Jacobson
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote n7ifr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Dec 2015 at 4:52pm
Steve,
I appreciate your response on this.  Also, glad to hear the Hard Copy PG for the 240 has been updated, but I have never received a hard copy for the unit - just my download of REV-G.

For that matter, no hard copy PG for my AXP340 Transponder, or TAS605 (A)either - just downloads.

Tom
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AviJake Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Dec 2015 at 4:57pm
Copy that.  Do you want hard copies or are the downloads good enough for you?  I'm an electronic copy only kind of guy but I know many others are not.  Let me know if you want real paper mailing your way for all those boxes.

The link for the current online copy of the audio panel is:

http://www.avidyne.com/support/downloads/audio.asp

and the transponder is:

http://www.avidyne.com/support/downloads/xpdr.asp




Steve Jacobson
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote brou0040 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Dec 2015 at 6:10pm
I'd suggest that when you remove a major feature that had been advertised as such, that an announcement be made when it is removed.

I created a spreadsheet in August comparing the different audio panels.  Based on the literature available at the time, I specifically noted that the AMX240 had the capability of auto muting the standby audio.  I had no idea this feature was removed until I read this post.

I'm glad I saw this post, I haven't yet upgraded my audio panel, but I would very disappointed if I had gone with the AMX240.


Edited by brou0040 - 30 Dec 2015 at 6:19pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote LarryPetro Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Dec 2015 at 7:18pm
I have been surprised to read in this thread that auto-muting would not be a feature of the AMX240, which I had been expecting based upon the previous discussions.  I do have an installed AMX240. 

My hard copy of the AMX240 Pilot Guide states on Page 6, "Dual radio monitor capability allows the pilot to listen to standby frequencies with automatic muting when the active frequency is in use."  That hard copy is Rev 00.  

I do see that Rev 01, which is available to me online, was revised to state, "Dual radio monitor capability allows the pilot to listen to the standby frequency while still being able to transmit and receive on the primary frequency."  

I have not yet used MON in the aircraft so I do not yet have experience with how practical that feature will be without auto-muting.
Larry Petro - Columbia 350 @ KFME
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote PA20Pacer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Dec 2015 at 9:07am
Hi Larry-

My comments are not intended to criticize the apparent legions that feel that auto-mute is important, but to address your comment about the usefulness the standby com feature without auto-mute. I have a single IFD540 with a KX-170 as my #2 com. I find it much more convenient to tune an ATIS in the standby slot of the 540 and listen to it using the standby com feature than to tune it on the #2 com. I actually prefer not to have auto-mute most of the time, as it seems that the information I am listening for is always cut out by another transmission. I just manage the primary volume to be sure that I can detect a call intended for me.

Regards,

Bob
Bob Siegfried, II
Brookeridge Airpark (LL22)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote LarryPetro Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Dec 2015 at 9:30am
Bob,

Thanks for the tips.  I do look forward to trying out MON, in the manner that you suggested.  I have a single IFD540 and an SL30 as NAV/COM 2.  Flying in the DC area, I like to keep 121.5 dialed in the SL30 with COM2 selected.  Just for good luck.  I expect my main use of the AMX240 MON-1 would to be to allow me to listen to ATIS during the early stage of the approach while paying attention to the Potomac controllers.  The frequencies are congested here and I usually have some trouble with getting the full ATIS while listening to the controller.  I had expected auto-mute to make that task easier.  But, as you suggested, simply turning down the volume a bit on the IFD540 Active may be the best approach in the preset circumstance.

-Larry
Larry Petro - Columbia 350 @ KFME
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AviJake Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Dec 2015 at 9:53am
I don't want to stoke the fires but I'm actually in the same camp as Bob.  I use the MON function virtually on every flight and use the same volume setting technique I used in the Air Force when I constantly monitored 3 different channels.  I find it to be completely usable as is.
Steve Jacobson
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MysticCobra Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Dec 2015 at 4:42pm
Presumably the auto-mute feature would have been user-selectable, so that everyone could be happy.  It's a little embarrassing that the feature was deleted because the designers couldn't get it to work.  It's not rocket science.

Personally, I find it easier to manage relative volumes between COM1 and COM2, as each has its own knob right there on the panel.  It's a bit more cumbersome to adjust IFD prime vol vs. stby mon vol, as it requires nav to the AUX page, then the Audio tab, then finding the right line in the list, then selecting the line, then twisting the knob to change the volume.

Is it the end of the world that auto-mute disappeared?  No.  Is it an opportunity missed?  Yes.  Are customers going to be disappointed?  Yes.

Bummer.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AUXAIR Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Dec 2015 at 6:24pm

I do have the 540/440/340 combination, but without the Avidyne audio in our panel, but instead a previous G* model that I kept for its 3 NavCom capability.  (In our case NavCom 3 is the marine radio). 

However, the MON output of the standby channel is very useful, especially fed into a audio select input on the panel.  It is fed into the former DME slot, and used generally to monitor 121.5.  It can always be on, nothing gets muted, and using volume controls and buttons, selected as needed, as others have suggested, works well for our purposes.

David E.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tony Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Dec 2015 at 6:30pm

Sometimes we just automate things way to much.  Airbus doesn't let the pilot be a pilot.  For me personally, I want the pilot to be in control, not the automation.  How hard is to just reach over to the audio panel and deselect the monitor audio if its bothering you? If its not bothering you, then listen to both.  But let the pilot choose.

Now I understand that some people think, because it says so in the literature, they are loosing out of something they are due.

Really?  You got two software upgrades at no charge......

Ok, I'm done and off my soapbox.  I want to wish everyone a very happen New Year and I cant wait until next year to see what Simpson hinted Avidyne has in store for us.  :)



Edited by tony - 01 Jan 2016 at 10:46am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DavidBunin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jan 2016 at 8:57am

Tom,

The good news is that the PMA-450 should be a slide-in replacement for the APX-240, so you should not be "out" any of the labor expense for installation.

Like others have said, I manage it with volume settings. I have the standby audio set to a slightly lower level than the active frequency, and I have not observed a need to change it "on the fly" in use. So it is something that I set up once and left alone afterwards. I just turn the standby audio on or off through the PMA-450.

Sometimes I am listening to four things at once, at various volume levels (Comm1, Comm2, Standby, Music).  It is not unmanageable.  You get used to it, like having a conversation is a crowded room.  Not that big a deal.

By the way, my PMA-450 has its own volume adjustments for the switched inputs (including the standby and alerts audio) and the music, so there was a bit of experimentation to get everything the way I wanted, but once set it is quite nice.

David Bunin

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote n7ifr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jan 2016 at 9:39am
Thanks David, and Happy New Year 2016.

I am looking forward to the PMA450.  My take (reading about it) is you can choose between the spatial "Inteli-Audio" of 4-channels, or use Auto-Mute function - mutually exclusive.

Most of us pilots like to have a choice, no matter which features we actually USE and actually get used to. 

Yes, I will miss some of the streamlined and user friendly features of the Avidyne AMX240 like Pilot only intercom volume (side tone) control, but for me, the 450 sound handling capability goes a long way.  I look forward to being able to listen to up to 4-channels separated by volume and/or audio spatial placement rather than continuously cycling the Monitor button off to not miss ATC, etc. 

Tom 



Edited by n7ifr - 01 Jan 2016 at 9:40am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oskrypuch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jan 2016 at 2:07pm
Originally posted by DavidBunin DavidBunin wrote:

Tom,

The good news is that the PMA-450 should be a slide-in replacement for the APX-240, so you should not be "out" any of the labor expense for installation.

Like others have said, I manage it with volume settings. I have the standby audio set to a slightly lower level than the active frequency, and I have not observed a need to change it "on the fly" in use. So it is something that I set up once and left alone afterwards. I just turn the standby audio on or off through the PMA-450.

Sometimes I am listening to four things at once, at various volume levels (Comm1, Comm2, Standby, Music).  It is not unmanageable.  You get used to it, like having a conversation is a crowded room.  Not that big a deal.

By the way, my PMA-450 has its own volume adjustments for the switched inputs (including the standby and alerts audio) and the music, so there was a bit of experimentation to get everything the way I wanted, but once set it is quite nice.

David Bunin


That is the approach that I'm using now with my 10.1.1 + SL30 setup.

I will use the IFD standby for ATIS, and things like that, and have set that volume as a little LOUDER than the primary.

The SL30 I will use for one (or two multiplexed auto-muted) frequencies, and use the PM8000BT to assign priority between the IFD & SL30. THe PM8000BT will auto-mute the secondary radio, at your option.

* Orest

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote luchetto Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jan 2016 at 2:54pm
Jake,

pls check your website and the marketing text regarding the AMX240, it still boasts the auto mute capability. You might want to change the wording also there.

Happy New Year to everybody

Placido
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ronl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jan 2016 at 3:14pm
[/QUOTE]
 THe PM8000BT will auto-mute the secondary radio, at your option.

* Orest

[/QUOTE]
Orest I'm sure you know this already but the APX-240 is just a PMA8000 audio panel in an Avidyne designed box. PS Engineering builds them. So, in a way, you already have an APX-240.  :-)
Ron L
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oskrypuch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jan 2016 at 3:19pm
Quote Orest I'm sure you know this already but the APX-240 is just a PMA8000 audio panel in an Avidyne designed box. PS Engineering builds them. So, in a way, you already have an APX-240.  :-)

Indeed, the base electronics are the same, but not all of the PSE options are fully implemented. In particular here, can't remember if the AMX240 has the no_mute/radio_mute/intercom_mute selectable settings, and the Monitor ON/OFF setting. I generally fly with radio_mute and monitor_on.

* Orest



Edited by oskrypuch - 01 Jan 2016 at 3:21pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote n7ifr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jan 2016 at 6:39pm
"PM8000BT will auto-mute the secondary radio, at your option"

Unlike the AMX240 the PMA450 (and PM8000BT) seem to offer the best of both worlds.  

Sounds like the best of both worlds to be able to use Auto-Mute on Comm-1 Standby, and then for Comm-2 Active and Standby, use the Spatial (Intel-Voice) front-right for "active" and back right "Standby"... or something like that.

Too bad this couldn't be implemented in the AMX240.

Tom Wolf


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote n7ifr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Jan 2016 at 12:17am
"By the way, my PMA-450 has its own volume adjustments for the switched inputs (including the standby and alerts audio) and the music, so there was a bit of experimentation to get everything the way I wanted, but once set it is quite nice."

David,
Explain in more detail how you route and monitor IFD540 Audio Alerts?  
Also, where are the PMA450 independent Volume Adjustments for switched inputs?

Thanks.

Tom Wolf
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DavidBunin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Jan 2016 at 7:16am

Originally posted by n7ifr n7ifr wrote:

Also, where are the PMA450 independent Volume Adjustments for switched inputs?

Let me be more clear. There are separate volume adjustments for the switched inputs and for the music inputs. There is only one volume adjustment for all of the switched inputs at the audio panel in the PMA-450.  Here is how you adjust the volume of the switched inputs:

From the default (main menu) screen, select "Radio" on LSK1 (Line Select Key #1, the top button).
From the Radio menu screen, select "Volumes" on LSK2.
From the Volumes menu, select "Switched Inputs" on LSK1.
Rotate the volume knob to set the level.  The screen will display a value from 1 to 10 and the LED bar on the left side will also indicate the volume level.

Adjustment of the music volume is similar:

From the default (main menu) screen, select "Music" on LSK3.
From the Music menu screen, select "Music Volumes" on LSK1.
Rotate the volume knob to set the level.  The screen will display a value from 1 to 10 and the LED bar on the left side will also indicate the volume level.
NOTE: This is a basic adjustment.  After this volume is set to taste, normal adjustments to the music should be made from the device playing the music.

Originally posted by n7ifr n7ifr wrote:

Explain in more detail how you route and monitor IFD540 Audio Alerts?

In my installation, I have the IFD Comm Monitor wired into Switched Input #1, and I have the Alerts wired into Switched Input #2.   The PMA-450 "Switched Input" volume control applies equally to both of these signals, but the IFD has the capacity to adjust them separately.  (I have something else, a provision for another system, wired to Switched Input #3.)

The PMA-450 remembers which radios are selected when the unit powers down.  So I tend to leave Switched Input #2 (the IFD Alerts audio) selected ON all the time.  The only time I turn it OFF is if I am deliberately conducting a low level flight (aerial survey or such) and I am familiar with the obstacles, where the alerts are a nuisance.  I have the alert volume level set in the IFD so that they are louder than the normal radio volumes.

I select Switched Input #1 (the IFD standby audio) to OFF most of the time.  I turn it ON when I want to hear that frequency.  I have the audio set so that the standby audio is at least slightly less than the volume for the normal radios, but they are close enough that I can mentally tune out either one if I want.

David Bunin

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