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SID programming for non-origin airfield?
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chflyer View Drop Down
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    Posted: 06 Dec 2016 at 2:49am
It appears that it is only possible to program a SID in an FPL from the departure/origin airfield. Can anyone confirm that?

We have a local situation where the airfield is VFR-only, but there is an IFR airfield nearby (3nm). There is a formal agreement to do an IFR (ILS or RNAV) approach to the IFR field and then break off, cancel IFR, and proceed VFR to the local airfield. That is straightforward to program in the IFD540.

However, there is also a formal agreement to proceed VFR to overhead the IFR field, perform a circuit and then join the SID and become IFR. I can't find any way to program this in the IFD540, other than to forget the first leg and just start the FPL at the IFR airfield which results in the first leg in the FPL being the first leg of the SID. One needs to just manage without the 540 until actually on the SID... not a huge issue but not really clean.

Any suggestions?
Vince
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teeth6 View Drop Down
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Points: 741 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote teeth6 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Dec 2016 at 7:16am
Haven't tried it but would it be possible to program the first leg airport abc to airport xyc and once you are near xyc VFR, just delete the origin airport which would seem to then make xyc the new origin and make it available for a SID?
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chflyer View Drop Down
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Points: 1035 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote chflyer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Dec 2016 at 6:07am
Thanks for the suggestion.

I tried that on the sim and it doesn't seem to work. I can delete the origin airport abc, which makes the leg from the 2nd airport xyc to the first subsequent wpt active, but doesn't change xyc configuration options. The IFD still only presents the new "origin" airport with only approach options.

On the sim, I also tried to program the FPL with origin at the 2nd airport xyc with the aircraft positioned at the first airport abc. Of course, the sim wanted to intercept the SID en-route and not at the originating airport. If I entered Direct To the origin airport, it completely wiped out the SID info and change the origin apt to a destination airport with approach options ... grrrhhhh.

It looks like my only option is just to program the IFD from the 2nd airport and make my way on the moving map without gps guidance from the IFD. Not a big issue, since that leg needs to be VFR, but it would be nice to have a way to set this up in the IFD.
Vince
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The best way to model this situation would be as follows (assume WXYZ is the identifier of the airport that has the SID):

1. Enter WXYZ as the origin

2. Select the SID

3. Enter the rest of the flight plan to the destination after the SID.

4. *After* the last leg of the flight plan, enter a leg to WXYZ.

5. Activate the flight plan

6. Activate the last leg of the flight plan (i.e. the leg to WXYZ).

7. Depart the VFR airport

8. Upon reaching WXYZ, activate the desired leg of the SID.

Note that the above steps will not work on the SIM because entering an origin will position the aircraft at that airport.
Simpson Bennett
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chflyer View Drop Down
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Points: 1035 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote chflyer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Dec 2016 at 2:19pm
Thanks for the suggestion, Simpson.

It does sound like it will work, and I'll give that a try next time I need to fly the SID.
Vince
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Originally posted by AviSimpson AviSimpson wrote:

4. *After* the last leg of the flight plan, enter a leg to WXYZ.

5. Activate the flight plan

6. Activate the last leg of the flight plan (i.e. the leg to WXYZ).

7. Depart the VFR airport

Seems like you'd need two legs at the end.  One from the destination back to your non-origin VFR departure point, and then one from there (here) to WXYZ.

Then you would be able to activate the leg between here and WXYZ (as suggested).

I think the alternative would be to "go direct to" WXYZ in step 6 of your procedure (rather than "activate leg"). Because the activated leg would be guidance on a line from the destination to WYXZ, not from your actual current position to WXYZ.

Or I may have misunderstood.

David Bunin
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Originally posted by DavidBunin DavidBunin wrote:

Originally posted by AviSimpson AviSimpson wrote:

4. *After* the last leg of the flight plan, enter a leg to WXYZ.

5. Activate the flight plan

6. Activate the last leg of the flight plan (i.e. the leg to WXYZ).

7. Depart the VFR airport

Seems like you'd need two legs at the end.  One from the destination back to your non-origin VFR departure point, and then one from there (here) to WXYZ.

Then you would be able to activate the leg between here and WXYZ (as suggested).

I think the alternative would be to "go direct to" WXYZ in step 6 of your procedure (rather than "activate leg"). Because the activated leg would be guidance on a line from the destination to WYXZ, not from your actual current position to WXYZ.

Or I may have misunderstood.

David Bunin


No, you are correct.
Simpson Bennett
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chflyer View Drop Down
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Points: 1035 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote chflyer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Dec 2016 at 1:36pm
I think your alternative suggestion would be simpler, David, as it would involve one fewer steps.

That is, just add the WXYZ airfield at the end of the flight plan before activating it, and then setting "direct to" that last wpt before takeoff. 

Comic relief:
While you're right Simpson that it doesn't really work on the sim because the departure location would be the origin in the flight plan, the solution can still be demonstrated to work because the sim departs from the origin in a nice curve back around to it again (last wpt WXYZ) at which time the SID departure leg can be activated.

Thanks for all the feedback. Now I just need to go out and test it in the real world :-)
Vince
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DavidBunin View Drop Down
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Points: 742 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DavidBunin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Dec 2016 at 2:07pm
Originally posted by chflyer chflyer wrote:

just add the WXYZ airfield at the end of the flight plan before activating it, and then setting "direct to" that last wpt before takeoff. 

Just a detail: You shouldn't need to activate a flight plan in the IFD.  It should self-activate on takeoff when the groundspeed exceeds the threshold.

That said, I think the direct-to command also serves as an 'activate' command for the flight plan.

Disclaimer: I have to admit that in practice I usually do activate my flight plans after I program them (before taxi), even though I don't have to.  It's just part of my mental routine before flight.  I like to observe the 'GPS' indicator changing from yellow to green.

David Bunin
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chflyer View Drop Down
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Yes, you're right David. I thought of that when writing the post, but I have the same practice as you and for the same reason. Having had GPS lock issues in the past, I developed a habit of always checking the colour before taxi and if not green then checking for FPL activation. Just after takeoff is not a good time to be trouble-shooting the lack of an active FPL, regardless of the reason.
Vince
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