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EI FP-5L Fuel Flow and IFD440
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cvela90 View Drop Down
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    Posted: 14 Dec 2016 at 3:15pm
Since my installer seems to be miss-informed on some issues, let me ask about another. Fuel flow data on the IFD440. According to the manual, if the IFD receives FF data, it goes to the fuel page on power up. Mine does.  But displays nothing.

The FP-5L however, when asked fuel to destination, responds with correct information.

I am told the lack of display is another 10.2 fix. Can anyone confirm?
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FlyingCOham View Drop Down
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The FP-5L uses a data format that is vendor unique an incompatible with IFD products. After several tries, I've given up getting EI and Avidyne to talk.  (:<)
Jim Patton
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I don't think this is correct.  I have a 540 and FP-5L and had the same situation, I believe it was a settings issue that resolved it, but I'm not positive.  I have full fuel capability between the units.
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brou0040 View Drop Down
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Originally posted by FlyingCOham FlyingCOham wrote:

The FP-5L uses a data format that is vendor unique an incompatible with IFD products. After several tries, I've given up getting EI and Avidyne to talk.  (:<)

If it's wired up properly, you can modify the settings to get this to work.
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MarkZ View Drop Down
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The tech staff is great; give them a call or email and they'll walk you through the settings. I did this on my transponder to get ADSB working. I did it on my cell phone at the airplane. Problem solved.
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The FP 5l can be configured to 1. Feed EIs MUX recorder OR 2. output a signal to the 540/440. But it can't do both. This output configuration occurs at the EI factory when you first order it.
If you have a MUX and keep feeding it, you can feed the FP-5L the GPS position from the 540/440 and then the FP-5L will tell you fuel to dest etc. As Flyingcoham said above, the data feed to the MUX is an old proprietory data stream format. If you don't have a MUX recorder, then the FP-5L should be configurable to feed appropriate info to the 540/440.





Edited by Dlesh123 - 14 Dec 2016 at 9:50pm
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brou0040 View Drop Down
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Originally posted by Dlesh123 Dlesh123 wrote:

The FP 5l can be configured to 1. Feed EIs MUX recorder OR 2. output a signal to the 540/440. But it can't do both. This output configuration occurs at the EI factory when you first order it.
If you have a MUX and keep feeding it, you can feed the FP-5L the GPS position from the 540/440 and then the FP-5L will tell you fuel to dest etc. As Flyingcoham said above, the data feed to the MUX is an old proprietory data stream format. If you don't have a MUX recorder, then the FP-5L should be configurable to feed appropriate info to the 540/440.

I've got a 540, FP-5L, UBG-16, and the mux.  I have fuel from the FP-5L on the 540, GPS from the 540 going to the FP-5L and fuel going to the mux - all working.

I do not recall how I hooked up the mux, but this discussion has jogged my memory a bit.  I think my fuel flow module is split and sent to the FP-5L and UBG in parallel.  The UBG goes to the mux, my FP-5L goes to my 540 (and 540 to my FP-5L).  So if you have a UBG with a free channel, you can get this to work. 

[CORRECTION]  My fuel transducer is split and sent to the FP-5L and to a FM-FLOW module in parallel.  The FM-FLOW module converts the pulses from the fuel transducer into temperature like readings.  The FM-FLOW module is then connected to the UBG-16 and it reads it as a temperature, but displays it as fuel flow.  The UBG-16 is then connected to the MUX and the fuel information is recorded via the UBG-16 information.


Edited by brou0040 - 19 Dec 2016 at 12:18pm
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Dlesh123 View Drop Down
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Points: 30 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dlesh123 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Dec 2016 at 11:19pm
That is very interesting. EI insisted it wasn't possible, but creative minds can overcome, as evident by your solution. I think our FP5L feeds the MUX, but if the UBG could do that, then I see how yours works. Will have to run that by our installer to see if we could do that.
Thanks

Edited by Dlesh123 - 14 Dec 2016 at 11:22pm
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FlyingCOham View Drop Down
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Ditto, THANX!!
Jim Patton
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cvela90 View Drop Down
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I'll give that a try. Thanks!
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From what I heard above, if your FP- 5L is currently configured to talk to the mux, it may need to be sent back to the factory to be modified to talk to the IFD.
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kgrant View Drop Down
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I have the IFD440 and the FP-5L displays all the fuel flow and qty remaining information. When they did my install, they requested my F-5L install manual and worked through it with the IFD 440 install manual.  I believe they had to change some wiring.  Maybe your installer doesn't want to read the manuals. 

The calculator pages provide some of the most useful information on the IFD440 when working through fuel calculations enroute. k  
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brou0040 View Drop Down
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Points: 720 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote brou0040 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Dec 2016 at 11:45am
Looking back at my install notes, I realized that in hindsight, they weren't as complete as I'd like.  I spoke with EI this morning to confirm my understanding so I can fill in the gaps.

- FP-5 cannot talk to anybody, not to the GPS or to download to the mux.
- FP-5L can talk to EITHER a GPS OR to the MUX (not both) and is a factory configuration (website says $98 to change to the MUX datastream and person on the phone said $295 to change this back to GPS)
- You can split the fuel transducer data stream and feed both the GPS and a FM-Flow module simultaneously.  The FM-Flow module then connects to the UBG-16 and if your UBG-16 is connected to the MUX, the fuel information will be recorded this way.
- You cannot use the FM-Flow module to feed the MUX directly, it must go through the UBG-16 so if you don't have a free channel then this won't work.
- The FM-Flow module is about $395 retail and includes the fuel transducer (which it sounds like most people here already have).
- You can purchase just the FM-Flow module (without the transducer) by calling EI directly and that costs $100 plus shipping.

Bottom line is that if you already have a UBG-16, FP-5L, and MUX, but your FP-5L is talking to the MUX directly, it is possible to reconfigure your setup to send fuel to the IFD-540, but it'll be ~$400 + shipping + tax + install labor.

Kind of a shame since it sounds like people spent the $98 to convert the FP-5L to talk to the MUX when a $100 FM-Flow would have given the same capability, but not require an additional $400 to convert it back to talk to the IFD-540.  The FM-Flow is not very well advertised so I bet most people didn't even know this configuration existed.
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DavidBunin View Drop Down
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That sounds about right.  I had a friend with a 182 and we installed an FP-5L, and then a few years later a UBG-16.  We did like you said, installed the FM-Flow module with the UBG and split the transducer output so that he wouldn't lose his interface between the FP-5L and his (then) GNS430W.  We installed the FM-Flow module because he wanted fuel flow as a recorded parameter on the MUX-8 and he didn't want to give up the fuel-GPS interface.

As I recall, he had the same 'kind of a shame' moment that you just had.

David Bunin
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Anybody using a JPI FS450 and/or a Insight G4 with the IFD?
Klaus
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chflyer View Drop Down
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I don't have the JPI FS450, but I do have the JPI EDM 701 with FF option which I "suspect" has the same functionality and external I/F as the FS450 ... could be wrong tho'.

EDM 701 FF works fine with both IFD 540 & IFD 440.
Vince
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Originally posted by KIM KIM wrote:

Anybody using a JPI FS450 and/or a Insight G4 with the IFD?
I'm using an Insight G3 with my IFD540.  Works fine.
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I'm using a G4 with no issues
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I recently installed a JPI FS450 and so far it works perfectly with my IFD540.


Edited by DH82FLYER - 09 Jan 2017 at 11:20am
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Michael View Drop Down
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My Mooney has a JPI EDM 930, which works perfectly with my IFD540.
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I'm using a FS-450 with my IFD 540 and it works fine.  Avionics Place in Rockford, IL installed the IFD540; the FS-450 was previously existing equipment.  We had no discussion about interfacing the two, it just happened.

From that, I'm inferring that it must be a standard configuration included with the installation instructions.
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Interestingly enough, updating to 10.2 fixed whatever problem it had. My fuel flow reads perfectly now.
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Disregard.
Regards,
Randy

Edited by Randy - 04 May 2017 at 10:12pm
Regards,
Randy
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