Nav, Chart Data

Yeah, a lifetime database subscription for what one year of Jepp sticks you for! That's the deal we'd all love to have. Probably aren't gonna see it. :-(

I too would be delighted if Avidyne were to offer Seattle as an alternative!  Jeppesen just isn't in tune with owner operated (and funded!) airplanes. 

AGREE x Infinity!

Since my Jepp subscription is up for renewal, I took the opportunity to talk with Jepp about cost and choices. I conveyed that many on this forum wish for an alternative and for competition to drive down the price. I also conveyed that the Avidyne package price for IFD wasn't very clear (in the past) on their website and that some sales folks didn't seem to know about it (based on several comments on this forum). Currently, several of the Avidyne choices are scattered through the list of choices, some at the end of the window and out of site. It is difficult for me to contrast less than a couple hundred dollars for Foreflight and FlyQ full USA charts and maps (and terrain clearance with SynVis) with Jepp's hundreds of dollars for exactly the same thing. Everyone that I communicated with said that these things would be taken under advisement.

Yes, the Seattle charts work on my ASPEN Pro system, They should be able to make the changes so that they work on my Avidyne system.

Please make it so...

Count me among the legions who detest Jeppesen.  Their actual products may be fine, but their business operations are abysmal.  The entire process of selecting data products and paying for them is ridiculously non-intuitive and prone to error.  Their prices are outrageous.  Renewals are a pain to deal with; for years I have been unable to achieve a renewal online and have had to resort to calling and talking to someone on the phone.

ddgates wrote: It would be really nice if you could have a stable relationship with a single account manager, rather than having to tell the tale of dysfunction over and over.

Here is the list of what I have purchased for two years from Jeppesen for my single IFD 540. I arrived at this package by talking with Jeppesen and understanding that it was a specially arranged price for Avidyne IFD540 product. There is tax of $65 which started showing up last year. These items are listed as one package price of $962.50. Message posted above by Jack Seubert indicates he pays $57 more for the entire US on TWO IFDs. Hmmmm - I'll be calling Jepp Monday.

Jack Seubert wrote: Compasst, That price seems a little out of line from what I paid Jeppesen for my last update in August. The Avidyne Integrated Bundle included Terrain, obstacles, nav data, electronic chart services for both my 540 and 440 with paper charts Full USA $1084.70  Jack

I don't think Avidyne has any leverage on this. I've been trying to get a Jepp quote for the Europe VFR charts (per Avidyne supported with 10.2), and have been unable. When/if it ever comes, I'm expecting it to be an additional Euro286/$310.... which brings the total up to $2'000, and from the reports here on the forum, that doesn't include the IFD100 charts.

I have the NavData from Jeppesen. Their website says it includes obstacles and terrain. Of course the website doesn't work for ordering so I called in.

I was told it is an additional $70 for obstacles and terrain but that's not updated frequently so I should t need it. This seems suspect. Can anyone advise?

Thanks Orest.

Is the Obstacles not included in the Jepp updates?

It is really really time to make a deal with Seattle Avionics for NAV data.....

I disagree. I believe choices are good but I sure would hate to loose Jeppeson because it works has world wide coverage and support. I do not feel the support from SA would be as good. Just try flying to South America without Jeppeson and you will see. Also the upload times are much better than with SA. It takes so long to upload the changes to flyq where the 550 goes so quick. We all want cheap but sometimes that is not better. Do not give up a good thing for a marginal thing. I hear complaints from Garmin owners all the time about how slow the updates are. Also Jeppeson has the better data. I also like their approach charts a lot more than nos. 

I agree that Jepp has very good product, but their monopoly as a nav data provider and their prices that come with it give me heartburn.  I would much rather be able to put more avgas in my tanks with a lower priced nav data alternative.  Even if that means longer upload times.  I've got time, what I don't have is a lot of avgas $$.

AzAv8r, can you tell me where to get NOS plates for Canada, France, Germany, etc, etc?

When in Rome do as the Romans do?

Flying_Monkey wrote: Couldn't Avidyne simply reformat the U.S. Government's nav data for use in the IFD's?  Please someone explain to me what I am missing and why this is so complicated.

Reformatting the government data is more work than you'd think.  I had a friend who requested the government navigation "raw data" so that he could evaluate the possibilities.  He ended up having to file a FOIA request to get it, and when it arrived it came in seventeen boxes.  The raw data consists of paper records, it is not digital.  Most of those records are hand-written notes, with sketches of trees and obstacles and whatnot.

The electronic database is Jeppesen's key asset.  They have created and refined their electronic database over time, and they get the paper changes from the government at each update cycle, so they only have to change what changed.

Yes, it can be done.  But it is a complicated undertaking and the legal liabilities for taking it on are virtually unlimited.  If the database creator mis-reads some government surveyor's hand writing from 1943 then the liability is on the database creator.  If I worked in Avidyne's legal department, I would urge them not to go down that path.

I worked with a developer of an early version of an Electronic Pocket Navigator, and his biggest problem was collating and correcting the government "raw" navigation data.  Even though he was only accessing and displaying airports and intersections, he spent hundreds of hours each month correcting the new data, which, when updating an airport might have shifted a decimal point or transposed some numbers. 

It was not simply a matter of moving numbers from one format to another, although that was difficult enough, but "sanity checking" the data in and out.  And as David notes, this is done with potentially great liability, both personal and legal.

Flying_Monkey wrote: So where does the Nav database of something like the GRT systems come from? And how are they able to be free?

I don't know where their data comes from or how they manage it, but ultimately it isn't free.  Somehow, same way, the customers or advertising sponsors are inputting enough money to keep the business solvent.

David Bunin

As the US Gov is the source of most didital charts products and updates, one would think that would be a baseline standard for any equipment or system that displays avaition charts. I have to update Skyview charts, ForeFlight Charts, and IFD540 charts seperatly. I have all three linked over WiFi, so it would be nice if the Skyview and IFD540 would synch/download the chart data from ForeFlight. 

User option settings?

You can add a private airport to the Jepp database fairly simply. You have to contact Jepp directly, they will query you for the relevant information, and it will get added.

oskrypuch wrote: You can add a private airport to the Jepp database fairly simply. You have to contact Jepp directly, they will query you for the relevant information, and it will get added. * Orest