At this point, I would gladly exchange the AXP340 for a 978 OUT unit...  If the TAS "A" promises ever surface, won't that at least give the 540 a way to display Dual ADSB IN & TAS IN?  

Tom W.

Old Bob

I wonder if they designed that, specifically to address the privacy concerns that small aircraft operators have.

* Orest

My biggest struggle is to understand the difficulty to provide a UAT with dual band receive.  To my knowledge the GDL88 may be the only certified unit with this capability?  I have visions of sitting at some small rural airport outside of ground station coverage, getting ready to depart, and having no idea someone is inbound with Mode S that maybe isn't talking and I won't see them as traffic.  1090 receive is the only remedy.

I recently purchased an Aspen ATX100 but if FreeFlight come along with dual band receive, I'll be first in line.

Mr. BobCain,

About ninety percent of the airspace in the USA allows such flight legally. No transponder of ANY sort required. In fact, NO Radio is reqired!

Happy Skies,

Old Bob

At Oshkosh this year (with this thread in mind) I stopped by the Sandia booth to see how they were doing on the STX360.  One thing I noticed, that I had not previously, is that their advertising material does not indicate that the unit produces audible traffic alerts.  Last year that would not have held any particular significance to me, but it has increased in importance since Avidyne "upgraded" the alerts out of the IFD software.

To be frank, a unit like the STX360 would still be my front-runner, because the lack of audio traffic  alerts from it would leave me no worse off than I am today* but at the same time it is a shame these things are standardized a little better.

* Actually today I still have the alerts because I have not installed the upgrade that deletes them, but I have to assume that any new ADS-B interface capability would also come with a new mandatory minimum software version.

ADSB is primarily for the benefit of ATC and major airlines, with the expectation that more precise knowledge of where aircraft are will enable smaller separation distances between aircraft in protected airspace and more efficient routing, leading to shorter in-air time (and lower fuel burn) for airlines, more takeoffs and landings at busy airports, etc.

The government's sole purpose was to move to a cheaper and more efficient way to prevent airliner midairs (radar was a WWII invention - and not nearly as good as the NextGen system).  ADS-B will accomplish that goal to a large extent - although thankfully the government still accepted some risk by not classifying all commercial airports as Class B.  The government's goal was not to accomplish midair elimination for general aviation at all.  The sole reason was to reduce the midair threat to commercial airliners.  That's all it ever was.

Personally, I would have been among those GA pilots who would have praised the government had it required all GA to equip with ADS-B Out in order to reduce midairs among GA aircraft.  But that was NOT the government's goal, and never will be. Like riding motorcycles risking collision with cars and trucks, flying GA airplanes risks collision with other GA airplanes (not airliners - the government reflecting the will of the people would not tolerate that). The government is not going to deny us the right to do so.  And the government is not going to force us to acquire ADS-B if we don't want to, unless we want to use the same airspace where airliners are.

It's not all about us.  Never was.  We could make it so by voluntarily equipping 100%, or asking AOPA to fight for a statutory blanket ADS-B equipment requirement like Congress did with ELTs decades ago.  I don't see that ever happening.  But that's OUR choice, not the government's.

Perhaps you are too young to recall the days when airliner midairs with GA were common and becoming more so, or are old enough but have forgotten - it's been a very long time.  Had the FAA not come up with something to eliminate them, there would be no GA today.  The public would have demanded the grounding of anything that flew, except airliners.

What the FAA came up with was a combination of airspace grabs (TCAs and the like) and transponders with Mode C in airspace where airliners were often found. GA fought it, but fortunately lost.  It was not a total airspace grab, and the transponder requirement was quite limited.  But to our great fortune, it worked!!  There has been no GA/airliner midair since those solutions were invoked several decades ago.  An astounding statistic, given the bloody history before.

Since the transponder-required airspace was sufficient to avoid all GA/airliner midairs, the government decided to limit ADS-B airspace to the same extent as transponders.  The government could have easily justified making ADS-B a blanket requirement everywhere, but it did not.  If they had, GA would have opposed it, citing the success of the transponder airspace - and an excellent argument it would be as well!

It sounds like you feel the government should have gone further and required ADS-B everywhere, despite the fact that transponder airspace has proven to be enough to make airliners safe.  Like I said, I agree with you - GA needs it everywhere.  But the GA industry would have fought it, and won.  The government knew that, and did not try.

If God forbid there is a midair between a GA aircraft and an airliner going essentially unprotected into a Class C or D airport (as you have witnessed and complain about), you can bet the ADS-B required airspace will balloon to everywhere above 1000 AGL.  Assuming the government is able to convince the public to back off demands to ground us completely.  Just another reason why I think ADS-B should already be mandatory everywhere.  It just might save our neck and the GA industry from Armaggedon.

I don't know about FAA marketing, but I do read aviation publications and sales brochures.  I was sold on ADS-B not by the FAA, but by L3's excellent marketing campaign for their NGT9000+, and bought one of the first sold.  It is everything they promised and so much more (and wow, do I wish Avidyne and L3 had their joint marketing campaign back when I was equipping with my Lynx and IFD!).  But if the FAA can be said to be "marketing" to GA, I say why not?  ADS-B provides free weather (a huge upgrade over talking to Flight Watch) and if you get ADS-B Out, TRAFFIC!!  The more GA equips, the safer airliners are - the FAA's chief concern (and rightfully so).  In my opinion, my NGT9000+'s full and complete implementation of the technology is right up there with the iPad, GPS navigators and XM weather as the most amazing devices I could have never imagined for the first few decades of my flying career.  I would not want to fly cross-country in a GA airplane now that was missing any of them.

I agree completely, ADS-B Traffic is incomplete, because it does not ground anything flying that does not have an ADS-B Out transponder.  I would include drones as well.  I see no excuse for leaving that loophole open given the missed opportunity to save lives, but I've already said why it's there: decades of no GA/airliner midairs proves the limited implementation actually works somehow, and the GA industry itself is against expanding the mandate any further to protect GA as well as airliners.  In fact, there's a lot of hostility to the limited mandate as it exists now.  The government, whose goal is to prevent airliner midairs, accepts that.  GA is its own worst enemy.

Closer spacing of airliners of course is one ADS-B goal, but it's much more than that.  It would not get off the ground if it were not at least as good as (and in fact it is much better than) Mode C transponders to avoid GA/airliner midairs.  A Google search will turn up a lot of worthwhile reading if you have the time.  

I think the courtroom is going to be where GA folks without ADS-B In and Out, especially flight schools, are going to get cleaned out.  The jury is not obligated to accept the FAA's limited mandate - for them it's a question of negligence and the duty to take reasonable care not to kill other people.  The technology is amazing, it works, and refusing to do it in my opinion is like refusing to replace brake lights and headlights after all the bulbs are burned out.  What surprises me is how plaintiffs have not already taken advantage of the argument with the midairs we've had already.  They will figure it out soon enough, especially after 1/1/2000 when ADS-B is no longer optional and all airliners are equipped. When a few examples are made of GA defendants losing everything, the rest of GA will get the picture, and there will be a second run on avionics shops.  Might as well equip now.

+1, including those pesky gliders that sometimes even end up inside clouds.

* Orest

Personally, I agree with you.  I want to light up like a neon sign in the sky, to other pilots, to ATC, to anyone who cares to look.

You're not necessarily missing anything to be worried about, but what you are missing is that not everyone is like you and me.  

America is supposed to be a land of freedoms, and that includes the freedom to remain anonymous and the freedom to fly a ragwing with no electrical system and no electronics on board...or even a seaplane with no ADSB.  (I recognize that not everyone in this conversation is American.  :-) )

Of course, we are not utterly free; that way lies anarchy.  But there is always a legitimate conversation to be had about where appropriate boundaries on our freedoms lie.

The other factor is cost.  A Stratux and a cheap Android tablet and a free EFB is not so expensive, and gives a lot of bang for the buck.  But to fully equip for the 2020 mandate is not a trivial expense, and there are plenty of folks out there who don't want to spend that money.

Now there may well be regions that have so few planes that ADS-B is not necessary, but as soon as you start flying close to class C and D space, it does become a safety issue. At one time, cars didn’t need much in the way of turn signaling or blind spot elimination, but as roads get fuller, safety features are needed not just for the driver of the car, but to keep those around him or her safe. 

There are people that refuse to use even a handheld radio in airports that are untowered but very busy. It is their right not to communicate, but it isn’t very smart. I’ve seen some pretty close calls caused by such attitude. 

+1

 

 

Since I am a fan of anonymous mode, I think perhaps some clarification is in order on just what that really means.

 

First and foremost it does NOT mean that I am unwilling to participate in the airspace.  Anonymous mode broadcasts my precise position and aircraft category once per second, just like any other ADS-B target.  The only thing it does is different is to send out a random value for the aircraft number.

 

The ADS-B signal is the most efficient tool ever devised for billing out user fees.  I'm not doing anything illegal, and I'm not "hiding" my aircraft location.  Just my billing address.

 

This is no different from squawking 1200.

 

If I am using ATC services, I have no problem with squawking a code and broadcasting my tail number.  If not, then it's just none of their business who I am.  Where I am?  Sure, I don't mind.  Who I am?  Nunya.

 

++++++++++++++++

 

See and avoid is hopeless.  There is too much sky to scan and humans just aren't up to the task of being a constant sentinel.  That's why we had to invent TCAS for the airlines.  One of the things ADS-B has shown us is that it is nearly impossible to spot a target more than a few miles away.

 

Luckily, the big sky theory actually works out there in the big sky.

 

Most collisions occur in the small parts of the sky.  Places like airport traffic patterns (specifically final approach) and what used to be the airspace over a VOR where planes could come together.  That one happens less now in a world of random navigation.

 

 

Stiletto1 wrote:   I don't understand how you would do much flying without broadcasting your N-number on the radio to FAA and anyone else that is listening at some point - and of course you advertise it on the side of your plane to every FBO you taxi past.

Until a recent move, I was based at an airport with no FBO and very little traffic.  Most of the world is rural, although I will grant you that most of the people live in cities.  Maybe it's different where you live, but around here a guy could do a lot of good, safe, perfectly legal lying without ever keying a radio transmitter.  And that is exactly where I want to have an ADS-B system broadcasting my POSITION for all to see (but not necessarily my identity).