Avionics shop refuses to activate ADS-B out

Installed a IFD-540, AXP-340 and 240. My Avionics installer will not activate the ADS-B out of my AXP-340 because of STC. He feels until the STC for the ADS-B out is approved he cannot legally activate it. He has disabled the GPS position feed from the 540 to the 340. Tried to make the argument 

They are misunderstanding the nature of that STC. That may take some arm twisting, or some head banging.

Gary T wrote: My installer activated ADS-B for me, but they were concerned about lack of STC available.   My ADS-B checked fine with the FAA compliance as well.

Me too.

Remind your installer that there are certainly hundreds, probably thousands, of folks flying around with portable (read: not certified) ADSB-out devices in their aircraft, and the FAA knows all about them (since they're actively broadcasting their identity to ATC).  I'm talking about things like the SkyguardTWX, SkyvisionXtreme, etc.

Edited by MysticCobra - 21 Jan 2015 at 3:15pm

Well I would try this argument....The TSO'd transponder was installed on a 337 first.  Then after that installation, the IFD540 was installed with an STC per the FAA approved installation manual.  In that manual on page 177, it clearly shows an RS 232 wire going to your transponder.  If he doesn't follow the installation manual then he is violating the STC.

He probably disabled it by disabling the RS232 input in the AXP340 on the maintenance pages. That is a pretty easy fix. We can probably walk you through it, but be aware that your wings may fall off. 

Edited by oskrypuch - 21 Jan 2015 at 6:44pm

Well none of the aruguments worked. He is afraid that during a FAA audit they will question the work order for something that has no STC or field approval. Whether founded or not, he is afraid of a $10,000

oskrypuch wrote: You also need to set what ADS-B IN (UAT or 1090ES) you are utilizing, I expect that is largely the point of this exercise for you, that you want to see traffic on a portable device.

MysticCobra wrote: oskrypuch wrote: You also need to set what ADS-B IN (UAT or 1090ES) you are utilizing, I expect that is largely the point of this exercise for you, that you want to see traffic on a portable device. As someone else mentioned, if you're feeling philanthropic, you can set your ADS-B IN to "both" so that traffic data is broadcast on both freqs.  That would benefit nearby aircraft who have either UAT or 1090ES ADSB-in, but no OUT to trigger the broadcast.  (In practice, I'm not sure how many planes might have 1090ES IN capability without also having the OUT.  For UAT, we know that lots of GA folks are in that boat.)

If the installer didn't follow the installation manual, I would hope you can document that and report it to avidyne. Hopefully Avidyne will take the appropriate action...

It definitely is not in avidyne's best interest to have renegade authorize installers out there. Right Steve?

If you can't tell, this just pisses me off. This is unnecessary regulatory bs.

Paul wrote: I don't think it works that way.  If your transponder says you can receive on both frequencies then the ground radar can send you the data on whichever frequency it prefers.

Edited by oskrypuch - 22 Jan 2015 at 8:49pm

Orest,

You could be right.  But sending on both frequencies would conflict with one of their goals (as told to me by someone involved in the design) which is to minimize 1090 activity.  1090 occasionally gets overloaded in some places.

I can't find a sufficient description anywhere.  Maybe Steve or someone at Avidyne knows the answer.  If not I'll try to find out elsewhere.  It would be interesting to run a test but it requires an airplane with a UAT transmitter and one with a 1090 only receiver and I don't have either of those.

Interesting points... 

Craig767 wrote: I was under the impression that if you had a dual ADSB in you would want both active for the times you are not in contact with a ADSB tower you could receive either a aircraft with UAT or 1090 out directly.

Here is my perspective on it FWIW.  Since the STC will be out shortly 30 days? it probably is a moot point at this time.  To be fair to the installers, yes, as unreasonable as it is, the ADS-B out requires an STC, and if you subscribe to the FAA notices, you'll see fines levied against companies for using unapproved parts or installing in an unapproved manner, so their fears are not unfounded.  Do I think anything will become of using ADS-B without an STC now? - No.  I would simply ask your installer to wire the boxes as the installation manual prescribes to ensure the only changes are software setup.  I would ask which output was used and then...That way, you assume the liability and responsibility if you choose to do something different.

Actually my comment was more general.

I have picked my installer and they will start next Monday(!)  But I would have found any PIREPs useful in making my decision.  So I wonder, as more get installed, if there should be a topic for it.

Orest,

I agree.  But other companies, at least other avionics companies, don't run a forum like this at all.

My attempts with Google to find avionics PIREPs didn't turn up much.  Where do you find them?

Just like a lot of things...

Edited by ddgates - 24 Jan 2015 at 4:33pm

My friend who really knows ADS-B says that currently they are transmitting on both frequencies if an airplane says it has receive capability for both, but that it could change.

Meanwhile they are predicting 2-3 feet of snow for us but our plane is in the nice avionics shop hangar having an IFD 540 installed instead of being tied down outside on a pad.

hamilton wrote: Back to the top, the shop may have disabled it in the 540 as they mention by not setting the channel output of the IFD to the AXP as ADSB Avi. I think the best option is to wait. Here in New Zealand we cannot install a mode S capable transponder without an STC (we do directly accept FAA STCs thank god) so we are all waiting with baited breath for that magic piece of paper!

Respectfully, I don't think that's right.

ddgates wrote: Respectfully, I don't think that's right. Avidyne has the pure mode S STC (for the US FAA) else it couldn't be in my panel, and it is there They don't have the paper saying the 540/340 combination together satisfies the 2020 ADS-B requirement. That's how I understand it. Jake?

Do you have the STC number of the Avidyne pure S-mode STC? I haven't been able to find it. Is it only for one a/c or does it have an AML?

Another thread has a discussion about the pure S-mode installation being a minor alteration (or not) and Steve hasn't mentioned anything there about an STC for pure S-mode.

I'm not sure how the ADS-B STC will address this question since, as you mention, it will just cover the use of an IFD540 as GPS source and the 2020 ADS-B requirement, and not the AXP340 installation as a straight S-mode transponder.


Edited by chflyer - 04 Apr 2015 at 1:19pm

Great news to greet my morning coffee!  Thanks!

Edited by AviSimpson - 09 Apr 2015 at 11:03am

Vince:

I will look (will be a few days -boarding the aluminum tube at the moment). Maybe AviSimpson can track it down in the interim.